Interviewer: "Tell me about, obviously both of you believe in the importance in educating the public and the importance of educating public officials, both elected and appointed officials, about environmental issues. That, of course, assumes that there is an open mind and there is an opportunity for those people to change their attitudes, when they understand more about an issue and when they hear that their constituency supports that change. Looking at it superficially, it seems that that process isn't working, with the present administration."
MSD: "I don't think that you can assume that they have open minds."
M Carr: "That's right."
MSD: "You have to assume that they have closed minds. That's why we need pressure from the general public, from the electoral side. You've got to open their minds by force, if we have to."
M Carr: "An elected official that responds just to special interests, which obviously is happening at the national level,..."
M Carr: "...is very hard to deal with. You can just assume he won't get in the next time..."
MSD: "But we have to fight that. That's what we're up against more than open minds. Open minds, if their already open, then that's half the battle, but it's the closed minds, minds closed for special interests..."
M Carr: "Yes. "
MSD: "...that are the problem."